Drivers are unhappy about stopping distances on bumps, tracks and slippery surfaces.
Dozens of owners of the current third generation Toyota Prius models have filled complaints with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration about the alleged brake failures they have experienced.
The Office of Defects Investigation has at least 33 complaints that we are aware of from Prius owners alleging a problem or safety defect, often about the design or performance of the braking system, which recharges the battery when the Prius decelerates.
Some owners describe this as unintended acceleration, but a review of the complaints by TheDetroitBureau.com leads me to think that this is an issue about how the braking system is calibrated. Whether this is a safety related defect is ultimately up to NHTSA to decide. The safety agency is authorized to order manufacturers to recall and repair vehicles when ODI investigations indicate that they contain serious safety defects in their design, construction, or performance.
For Toyota, it is another owner satisfaction or quality issue, at a minimum, coming from its most advanced technology vehicle at a time when Toyota is under attack for its handling of safety matters.
Braking performance issues?
In the case of the Prius brakes, it appears that the transition from regenerative braking to hydraulic braking is not transparent to drivers. Under certain conditions, the driver needs to press harder on the brake pedal to obtain the same stopping performance that the regenerative system working in conjunction with the hydraulic brakes initially provides. Drivers are clearly upset by longer than expected stopping distances when the antilock system shuts off the regenerative brakes.
“What I, and others have been experiencing, is certainly not “runaway acceleration” or anything to do with pressing the gas pedal,” Robert Becker, an unhappy owner of a 2010 Prius, told TDB.
“But rather the loss of braking power or braking momentum when hitting a pothole, manhole cover, or the like. This requires the driver to press down again harder on the brakes to slow or stop the car,” Becker says.
Becker’s complaint is typical of others that ODI is tracking from owner communications on its Auto Safety Hotline. However, the existence of complaints does not mean the government will ultimately pursue the matter. The next steps would be to open up a preliminary investigation, which could be followed by an engineering analysis, which could lead to a recall. Neither have been initiated by NHTSA thus far.
Here is another Prius driver filing: “There have been several incidents in which my car seemed to surge forward while I was in the process of braking and hit a bump, railroad tracks or pothole. Initially, I convinced myself I must have been letting up on the brake when I hit the bump, but when this same thing happened three days ago on slippery, icy roads, I knew for 100% certain I had not let up on the brake. My car surged as I was slowly pulling up to a stop sign and gently braking. I came very close to hitting the car in front of me, had to push down on the brakes very hard, which activated the abs.”
I think what is going on is a combination of design/calibration choices and the compounding effects, forgive the pun, of the low rolling resistance tires, suspension settings and perhaps vehicle weight.
The Prius is arguably Toyota’s strongest image vehicle, dominating the hybrid segment as the best seller with more than 1 million in sales to date, and disproving other automakers’ contentions that Japanese companies only copied instead of innovating.
A Toyota spokesperson initially told TDB that he was unaware of the issue, but Toyota quickly supplied the following statement: “We are aware of the complaints filed with NHTSA. The agency has not opened an investigation. We are investigating the issue based on internet traffic, customer comments to Toyota Customer Relations, and NHTSA complaints. It is too early to speculate the final conclusion(s) of our investigation and subsequent actions.”
NHTSA would only confirm that no recall or formal investigation is underway. The ODI complaints are a matter of public record, though.
Fatal for Pedestrians?
Nonetheless, an internal NHTSA memo says: “It appears that when you hit a bump, the regenerative braking (front wheels only) cuts out, and there is a short delay until the friction braking kicks in. This results in loss of braking, which is experienced as acceleration (due to sudden end of deceleration from braking). Net impact is still a loss of braking/ increase in stopping distance. This could be fatal for pedestrians — it happens when approaching stop lights if you hit a pothole.”
Toyota is in the midst of huge recalls involving floor mats and accelerator pedals (3.8 million vehicles) and rusty Tundra frames (+100,000), among others; and it faces lawsuits alleging the withholding of evidence in safety investigations, as well as new charges of unintended acceleration, and stalling in some of its most popular models.
Toyota’s worst year for recalls, ever
So far this year, Toyota has said it will recall a total of 4.8 million vehicles in the United States, four times more than in any previous year. It recalled 1.1 million vehicles in 2004.
It is difficult, though, to attribute the Toyota brand sales decline in the U.S. – off 24% year-to-date, about the same as industry results — to a damaged reputation, in spite of much self-serving media and analyst commentary claiming such.
However, the longer safety and customer satisfaction matters remain under media and government scrutiny, the more serious the potential consequences. The company announced last week the retirement of its long time group vice president of environmental and public affairs, which could be coincidental or not.
The dealership that sold Becker the car recommended that a Toyota field technician check on his complaint. The technician, according to Becker, acknowledged the condition, but stopped short of characterizing it as a safety issue.
While he initially was looking for a fix for the problem, Becker now wants a full refund of the purchase price of the vehicle, something the company is unwilling to do thus far.
“It makes me question Toyota’s commitment to customer service and safety,” Becker says.
I first noticed this problem, not surprisingly, while driving in New York City and slowing down at a red light, approaching a pedestrian walk in Times Square. As I pushed down on the brake to gradually slow down, I must have hit one of the many potholes or bumps in the road, and to my surprise, instead of the car coming to a stop, it’s as if the brakes released unexpectedly, forcing me to press down harder to stop. I would guess that the unexpected forward momentum caused me to stop a few feet or more further than I anticipated. And when you’re talking about busy pedestrian walkways, you don’t have a lot of latitude before potentially winding up in the pedestrian walkway itself. The first time it happened to me, it scared the hell out of me – and that’s what many other Prius owners report as well. And it doesn’t take much of a bump in the road to re-create the occurrence. Now when it happens, I get angry more than anything else because I know this shouldn’t be happening!
Fortunately, I have not had an accident, but that’s due to my changing my driving style and anticipating when the braking issue will occur. I travel the same route back and forth to work each day and I have come to know many of the trigger points in the road that will create this issue – the scariest one being near a pedestrian crosswalk in New York where I have to come down a slight grade in the road before making a right turn – there are often pedestrians standing in the road itself, and of course, the road is bumpy there. What I have been doing to compensate for the brake issue is to switch from the “D” drive mode down to the lower gear “B” mode to slow down the car and avoid using the brakes when I don’t have to – in fact, whenever I am in need of slowing down the car on a decline, I will always switch into B mode to try to avoid using the brakes for as long as possible.
Interesting. I had the same symptoms on my ’96 Toyota T100 4×4 with ABS. I’d go over a bump or RR tracks while stopping, the brakes would release momentarily and I’d have to step on them harder to avoid rolling through a stop sign or hitting the car ahead of me.
I talked to the Toyota mechanic I bought it from used and he said he experienced the same thing.
I to have experienced this, there are actually a lot of these complaints on Priuschat. Many people have said that it is a regular occurrence with ABS brakes but I don’t think so, ABS brakes have been around a long time and I’ve never heard anything like it. I too have learned to slow down before bumps, cracks, tracks and the like. Sometimes you just can’t anticipate and the unintended acceleration happens. It really is very scary – it’s happened to us 3 times. Twice with no car in front of us and once when there was a car in front- thank goodness we don’t tail people. I hope this article brings to light the problem and I hope that Toyota takes this seriously. They denied the runaway accelerator problem until it couldn’t be swept under the carpet anymore.
Toyotas are no longer as reliable as they used to be with massive recalls and a new found mentality to hid safety concerns from the public. Refer to the LA Times recent article “Toyota found to keep a tight lid on potential safety problems”
People on this website please google search ‘2010 Prius accelerates while braking’. The 1st listing is titled ‘Prius sudden acceleration: Much ado about nothing’. Click on that site and read. There are more people experiencing this problem. We just all need to get together and get the NHTSA involved.They will do the rest. As I stated in a letter on the other site: you are very naive to think that Toyota will do anything about this unless forced to do so. KEEP COMPLAINING!! to your dealers also and keep the documentation.This will get media attention soon if we are all diligent with follow through.
It appears that the Japanese no longer feel they have dishonored their company when there is poor workmanship. My feelings on this come from the defects of which they do not want to acknowledge. Whether it was engineering, or tradesmanship, they still need to acknowledge their defects. That is the main reason I chose to buy a Toyota 2010 Prius III. (I knew that they considered it an honor to create a perfect product and had a feeling of failure if they didn’t. I felt safer with a Japanese made automobile).
My FJ cruiser has the same brake failure – but I was told by the dealer that it is normal, and in fact a ‘feature’ of the Electronic Brake-force Distribution system. Anytime I come up to an intersection, I hope there are no potholes or waves in the pavement, because I am not able to stop. I always try to brake way ahead of an intersection, just in case.
The worst thing about all these problems is that Toyota doesn’t even care. Toyota keeps making low-quality and sometimes dangerous cars and the American public keep handing them bundles of cash, which is all Toyota seems to care about anymore.
I have now had about 6 instances of my 2007 Prius feeling like it is out of control when I have put on the brakes at a lower speed approaching a stop or yield. I HAVE pressed hard on the brake as it scares me, but it seems to roll on. And yes, I have noticed it happening on manhole covers and in all types of weather. took it to the dealership and they told me one wheel may be slipping.
I have it back again to the dealership after yet another incident, as I am arguing it is a serious safety issue that makes my driving unreliable. They can find nothing as it is an intermittent problem. I have also argued that my mileage is several standard deviations from the “norm” they advertise but that is another issue.
No more Toyotas for me yet I will say that the 2003 Camry was one of the nicest cars I have had.
I have a 2008 Prius. On Dec. 17, 2009 I was in bumper to bumper traffic. I was about 2 car links behind the car in front of me. I took my foot off the brake to move up and my Prius surged forward. I tried to brake and literally stood on my brakes to stop. The only way to stop my car was to hit the car in front of me to stop it. The brakes would NOT engage to stop or even slow down my vehicle. I had no control of my car other than steering. I had the car towed to the dealership because I couldn’t drive it with no brakes. The dealership said they ran diagnostics on the brakes and there was ample brake pads and that they checked out according to specifications.
I KNOW what I experienced and it was not my fault that I hit the car in front of me. I had up to now clean driving record. Now, after this incident, I’m no longer confident it is a safe car to drive with this defect looming. I sincerely pray that the NHTSA will get involved before others are seriously harmed or killed by this problem with the brakes, accelerator, or surging battery issue on the Prius.
Good Morning Ken: Interesting one — ‘allaboutprius.com’ is the other site where I was posting. I don’t know who they are but I have twice written on that site for people with this problem to go to your site. Twice I have gotten off line and then online to verify the post and the comments have been there. Hours later they are gone….Have I hit a sore spot? I hope so!
I am not rude with my comments. I am simply zealous with my pursuit for an answer. My daughter owns one.
Thanks Len
I have experienced this many times on the bumpy roads of metro-Detroit. It is scary as you do not expect this to happen while braking…. I have driven many types of cars with ABS and never run across this condition. If not for the Internet forums, I would have thought of this as a defect. It just seems to be part of owning/driving a gen 3 Prius. Of course I would be happy if a fix can be developed that does not compromise the regen capacity of the brakes.
Wow, there’s a lot of irrational Toyota hatred going on here! It seems there’s a bit of mass hysteria in the air, and the reference by JCC to a LA Times article is laughable. The Times is just phishing for sensationalist articles in a period of declining readership.
But please allow me to recount my experiences with a 2010 Prius.
First, the blending of the electrical regenerative braking system with the conventional hydraulic disks is smooth and seamless. Under normal conditions the transition is not noticeable. The problem occurs when the brakes are applied and for one reason or another, the front wheels loose traction. In a conventional vehicle the brakes are applied on all four wheels, but regenerative braking on the Prius occurs only on the front wheels. So when the system senses a loss of traction it quickly shuts down to prevent an uncontrollable skid from developing. At the same time it activates the conventional hydraulic disk brake system on all four wheels, a transition that takes less than half a second, in my experience. The slowing forces being interrupted for this fraction of a second “feels” like an acceleration.
This “feeling” is consistent, in my experience, with other ABS anti-skid systems. If Toyota were to modify the system by turning off the anti-skid function they’d be blasted and sued for selling unsafe vehicles. If they disabled the regenerative braking system to make a few people happy under edge-cases, it would make me, and many others, very unhappy!
Still, this is only my opinion. If independent product testing shows there really is a significant safety issue, then it should be addressed. I don’t think there is.
In general I love my new Prius. However, the first time I drove it on snow I noticed that the brakes locked up when I applied only light pressure. This happened at a slippery intersection and caused a lot of panic. The car seemed to just slide straight forward. This is not some minor issue, but the kind of defect that gets people killed. I told my wife the first time it happened that we would be hearing about it in the media before too long. What are we Michigan Prius owners supposed to do now? Park our cars until spring?
Thank you Lewie! I have been asking on different websites if this is an increase in engine rpms or the sensation of acceleration,with no reply. It does take someone with mechanical knowledge to know the difference.If you are sure of this, it seems to be as stated earlier at this site, an interaction between normal brakes,antilock brakes, and regenerative braking. I hope this can be alleviated with a software change. I know a few people that say they have dealt with the panic of antilock brakes, but this is different. It is much more pronounced. We’ll see
I just read the article on the Toyota Prius brakes having an issue. I own a 2008 Prius. I have also a few times had the same sensation, of the brake slipping or not engaging. It happens on sand or, perhaps water, as best I can tell. The first time it happened it was very scary. I haven’t had an accident, but it isn’t only with the 2010 Prius that this type of problem occured. BK
Len: The engine definitely doesn’t increase RPM, it’s not even spinning in this braking situation! But to the best of my knowledge, the Hybrid drive isn’t providing electrical torque either. The vehicle isn’t accelerating, there’s only the “sensation” of acceleration. I know of one stretch of road that triggers the effect and I’ve navigated it multiple times just to figure out what was going on. The effect could probably be mimicked in a non-Prius by smoothly braking from 50-mph, but as you decelerate through 30-mph release the brake pedal for half a second or so. I bet a passenger wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between just releasing the brakes and actually accelerating.
Regarding Ken’s slipping observation: The Prius is supposed to have a vehicle control system that won’t let you get into a skid. If you “were” skidding, maybe the conditions were so bad that nothing would help? Or, is something wrong with your car? I saw some videos where a driver was trying to get a Prius to spin out on a snow-covered parking lot. They weren’t able to do it!
Lewie: I can’t detect anything wrong with the car except the slipping problem with light brake pressure. That’s the odd thing. My stops were not of the “panic” variety but were the kind of braking one does to stop in a controlled fashion on very icy surfaces (very common around here during or after snowfalls at intersections). I’ve driven many makes and models of car through the years without experiencing anything like this.
I have a 2010 Prius which, except for the braking problem, I love. I have had the experience several times described in the internal NHTSA memo: “It appears that when you hit a bump, the regenerative braking (front wheels only) cuts out, and there is a short delay until the friction braking kicks in. This results in loss of braking, which is experienced as acceleration (due to sudden end of deceleration from braking).” Thus far, this has never happened to me when I have been at an intersection where there are pedestrians crossing. But the feeling of being “airborne” and having a loss of control is frightening, and I have worried that it could cause me to ram into a car (or person) in front of me.
I have a 2010 Prius. I’ve experienced this problem about half a dozen times while decelerating / braking. When the car hits a bump, it feels like the braking pressure goes to 0, which gives me the sensation of the car lurching forward. I’d imagine the chance of something catastrophic happening are probably pretty low, but this is probably a legit safety issue. I’ve filed a complaint with the NHTSA. We’ll see where this goes, if anywhere at all.
I have been anxiously awaiting the date (May 1st, 2010) when I have planned to officially purchase my FIRST Toyota. I had all plans to purchase a ’10 Prius – but now I am a little reluctant and hesitant to do so. Hopefully Toyota and NHTSA will take care of this for all current and future Prius owners.
Hi, Meg,
I hope you are right. Would I not recommend a Prius now? If someone were convinced it was the right vehicle for them I might say, “Go for it.” But considering the number of complaints, I might advise hanging tight to see what happens. Be aware that so far, none of the reports and complaints suggest the braking issue has had the sort of impact as the loose floor mats have had on Toyota product safety. Nonetheless, it’s disconcerting to hear that a vehicle could lose its brakes, even for a moment, and then try to justify a buy recommendation. Let’s see if and how Toyota responds. Indeed, the feds may decide that there really is no problem, though at this point, that seems questionable.
Paul A. Eisenstein
I like the comments about Toyota not being as reliable now…
I doubt they ever were as reliable as the media played them out to be. Ford/GM/Chrysler issues were always front page. Toyota made page 13. Times are finally changing.
I spent seven years as a quality engineer working for a Toyota keiretsu supplier. The stories I have could provide a few book volumes…
Let the American sheep keep buying their perfect little imports…while they lose their houses due to the failing economy.
Smart.
Reliability infers time. These are messing up out of the box. I do have to agree we are sheep to the media. I personally have owned both American & foreign cars throughout my life including an Audi 5000 (sudden acceleration sound familiar?!). Other than design flaws, which we are discussing here, I have found that the reliability of an automobile is in how you maintain it. If Detroit wants to sell more cars, make them look good and be fuel efficient. It’s always been that,in order to be priced moderately, it has to look ridiculous. Course I’m in conflict with myself on this one cuz lately UGLY sells too. I’m suddenly tired!. Need to get back to Prius braking problem!!
You should NEVER buy a car in the first few years of its debut. There are ALWAYS problems.
Prius’s sold like crazy when gas was $5/gal, Then the price of gas dropped to $3/gal. Abiding by the above rule would also prevent folks from paying extra for a hybrid when gas prices were ready to fall anyway. No need for a hybrid.
I am sure Toyota will get the bugs out. For present owners, you are screwed.
Vito
I have a Prius 2010 Prius and it happens everyday for me. I live on a hill, and driving down it is a speed bump. Every time I go down, I keep my foot gently pressed on the brake, but when I ride over the speed bump, I loose braking tension and for a good second I accelerate instead of maintaining my intended speed.
Hey Folks,
The reason the car does this is to maintain vehicle stability. The vehicle will switch from a regenerative braking / hydraulic braking combo to pure hydraulic braking if it detects a significant change in one of its many accelerometer sensors (which would be triggered by a manhole or any other similar obstacles on the road like a pothole). My understanding is that this is actually a safety feature to help prevent the Prius from fishtailing or otherwise careening out of control. I suppose Toyota could have made it so that the switch from regenerative braking to pure hydraulic braking was more forceful…but there are probably standards for that sort of thing that they have to comply with.
Andrew
To all trying to find fault with the Prius just because it has engineering you don’t understand I would like to say that I have experience this phenomenon in many modern cars its not unique to the Prius.
With the built in stability systems of today’s cars we have become lulled into a false sense of security driving beyond the limits of adhesion.When the systems react we think its the fault of the car when in fact its the drivers fault.Late braking,slippery conditions,uneven road surface’s will bring these system’s into play indicating the driver is not aware of the danger.
Every incident from this article mentions conditions such as late braking,hitting bumps,or slippery conditions which would indicate ABS kick in. There is no way regen braking is involved, the drag is so slight and even negligible at low speeds its undetectable when it drops out. The hydraulic brakes are always there from high speed to full stop but if ABS is activated the wheels are allowed to cycle between rotating and stopping thus increasing the stopping distance. This produces the sensation the car is not going to stop no matter how hard the pedal is pressed.
I suggest these owners Google ABS brake characteristics and stop spreading misinformation.
I’ve been dreaming about Toyota Prius 2010 to come – to buy one. Yes, because Prius has finally become a normal car, because of its fuel efficiency and the technology packages available. But, there is nothing more important than safety!
Now, I can with certain confidence say:
I WILL NOT BUY THIS CAR BEFORE THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN RESOLVED.
Yes Alexander I would suggest not getting out of bed you might be safer there.
If you will read my comment above and stop listening to those trying to harm sales of Hybrids you might realize its not the Prius thats at fault.
Any modern car has these traits and its down to the characteristics of the modern ABS systems.
Drivers are also at fault as described above.
I drove a 1st generation Prius for 7 years with this exact problem. I complained to the Toyota dealer but they said that was how the braking system was designed. I have since driven two other cars over the same manholes, rough roads under construction etc and have not had any problems. I know from experience that my stopping distance is extended by a few feet in these instances and it is a safety issue. In the real world I adjusted my driving style to be even more defensive. In all other aspects I believe the Prius to be a good car but I chose not to buy another one mostly for this reason.
I own a 2010 Prius and have driven other cars with ABS and currently ride a 2002 BMW R1150RT motorcycle with ABS that I purchased 6 years ago. I have experienced the feeling of loss of braking the MOST on the motorcycle at very slow speed over very sandy, rocky and/or bumpy road conditions, much more so than in my Prius, and I have never had an accident because of it.
While it is true that the Prius’ loss of deceleration is more than most other ABS equipped CARS, my bike has the scariest loss of braking by far (but it has always been at very slow speed so it never scared me enough to part with it). I have noticed that I give a progressive increase in pressure on the pedal while braking in the Prius (as opposed to a steady pressure on the brake pedal in other cars) to compensate for the increase in stopping distance that I have perceived while braking.
But, I have never experienced an ACCELERATION as some people have been stating. I also have noticed that it is also more common at slower speeds, or more precisely, as the car is approaching slower speed while braking. I have put over 43,000 miles on the bike (often in rainy or less than optimal riding conditions) and I’m still here.
I would definitely buy another Prius. In my opinion, the brakes on the Prius are weird at most. Aside from the one person who posted here that rear-ended someone in bumper to bumper traffic, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of statistical data to support an all out recall. Seems to me people just need to adjust to the car.
Yep! It has happended to me and it is not fun. Need a fix…
RGL
This has happened to me several times in my 2010 Prius. I’ve nearly hit cars while turning into parking lots after driving over a bump. Also have rolled into intersections because of potholes and lack of braking power. Anyone who says it isn’t a safety issue is silly. I’ll be filing my official complaint ASAP. Someone’s going to get hurt. Roll out into a major intersection and splat!
Wow you guys are really on to something, with over two million worldwide sales of the Prius this perceived problem has only cropped up with a handfull of American drivers.
Strange,strange, strange.
Thoughts of conspiracy,our willingness to sue,paranoid safety freaks,enginering ignorance,bad driving all spring to mind.
My brakes have not failed. However, I do believe the Prius has a problem with their brakes.
My car started making some strange sounds. The dealer first drained all the brake fluid to check for air in the lines. When that didn’t fix the sounds, they replaced the actuator assembly which corrected the initial strange sounds, but ended up creating many more unusual sounds that were not previously there. The brakes work but sound like they are slipping and all sorts of clunking sounds are now occurring when the brake pedal is depressed which gives one a very uneasy feeling.
The dealer insists that all of the sounds are normal but they definitely were not there before. Also, since they replaced the actuator, my gas mileage has dropped about ten per cent.
I do know that they dropped power completely when they replaced the actuator but it doesn’t seem like that should reduce the gas mileage.
Anyway, I had been thrilled with my Prius for the first 21 months but I am now extremely disappointed in it and it is not a pleasant vehicle to drive. It also makes me constantly wonder if the brakes are going to fail.
I’ve complained to Toyota headquarters but they have not been any help.
One of the problems with a Prius is that only a dealer can work on them.
If these strange sounds continue, I will trade my Prius in on either a Ford or Chevy, something that almost any independent garage can work on.
Throughout this and other comments on other Web sites and blogs about this issue, there has been a lot of talk of conspiracy, paranoia, lack of driving experience, poor road conditions, etc. I can assure folks that this braking issue is about nothing more than trying to address a potential safety issue with the car and the need to generate awareness on it to get it resolved one way or another. Why there is debate and/or defensiveness about this issue is beyond my understanding.
Robert: I think D Gate is a Toyota dealer.
To all that post here: I’ll say it again.I owned an 85 Audi 5000. Both my wife and myself almost went through the garage wall. We got the same “can’t find any problem” crap from the dealer and Audi vehemently denied the problem. It took 60 Minutes to bring this out to the public. Then it got fixed.
That was a real acceleration problem. The Prius HAS a problem with the braking system.It may just need to be sequenced better for the weight of the vehicle.But as long as people keep complaining and ignore the “it must be the way you drive” excuse from the dealers, this will eventually this will get media attention it deserves.
Devil’s advocate:After all is said about this. I HATE antilock braking systems! I’m an old fart. I’ve driven for 40 years in the winter without anti-locks and I’m still alive. The reason we have all this technology to help people avoid accidents is because most people are lousy drivers.
If you want to talk conspiracy,let’s say that after years of telling people not to tailgate, the automakers came up with anti-lock brakes to scare the @#$% out of us. ‘A few panic sensations of never stopping will teach em a lesson’!
No I am not a Toyota dealer and I agree if there is a problem it needs to be sorted.
What gets my dander up is certain peoples attitude toward the car just because its different.
Suddenly its the hybrid system,or the lighter weight,or Toyota as a company.
No ladies and gentlemen its life,nothing is perfect and this imperfection is spread through out the industry whether its Ford or Chevy,BMW or Mercedes.
They all have problems.
Adopting an attitude like I’ll never own another Prius,or my next will be a chevy etc just because there is a problem with one in 10,000 is childish. Dealers are not always proficient whether they are GM,Ford,BMW,or Toyota at finding a solution. And as Tjw above has found out they can introduce new problems trying to solve existing ones.
The Prius is a GEM so don’t be so shallow in your support of it just get it sorted even if you have to travel to other dealer’s. Would you take the word of one doctor in a no hope case?
I have driven Hybrids for the last ten years and if I had a major problem I wouldn’t condemn the technology it would be the particular car. My solution would be to get it sorted or change to another car of the same type not whine and give the make a bad name.
For a few years,Toyota Hybrid System’s problem like this was reported by the Japanese customers on the owner’s BBS of ex-PRIUS and ESTIMA HYBRID and so on. So Toyota’s engineers must know this problem. But they didn’t fix the system because of the saving of the development cost or technical problem. I think the new PRIUS was designed more mileage intention and raised the dependence of regenerative braking. As a result,the phenomenon became more serious.
D Gate: I agree. My daughter owns a 2010 Prius and loves it, other than this issue. I owned that Audi and it was the nicest handling car I ever owned.
Unfortunately, because of liability issues, everything about problems like this are always hush-hush. It leaves the consumer with a feeling of abandonment. That intern festers all of the anger that we’re reading.
The dealers and the manufacturers (and the lawyers)need to find a compromise that leaves the consumer with a sense that problems are at least being addressed. That’s a fine line in our litigious society.
Now that I know your stand, I apologize for my previous comment to your previous statement.
Friends??
Len I have been called worse so don,t fret…
However pyro thinks Toyota doesn’t sort it out due to revelopement costs????
Logic tells me this car has probably had more money spent on it in developement than any other in history so why would they call a halt to further spending if its reputation were at stake.
The mind boggles!
I traded my 2005 Prius for my current 2009 Prius (well over 100,000 combined miles). I have experienced this strange braking phenomenon a few times with both models, but never to the point of feeling unsafe. Every car has its own driving characteristics and you adapt accordingly. It took a little while to adjust to the gearshift lever being on the dashboard, now one of the reasons I did not trade for a 2010 Prius is because the gearshift lever is NOT on the dashboard. If people would learn the little oddities of the Prius, they would find there really isn’t a real problem with the brakes.
Owner of a Prius 3 since Nov. 09, I NEVER have experienced that phenomenon.
Prius was running still 12 years. Which other manufacturer has more experience with HSD system ? Chevy ? I don’t think so !
I wish that it is about a storm in water glass.
We’re getting there! I just googled “2010 Prius acceleration while braking” The 1st website posted is about the NHTSA now looking into complaints from 3rd generation Prius owners about this issue.
As much as I am an old fart and am not a big fan of computer over-use, the internet surely brings people together on issues like this. So as much as it is contrary to my nature; KEEP POSTING!!
My gosh – people – ANY car with ABS exhibits this – when you hit a bump the wheel momentarily stops and makes the ABS system think the vehicle is sliding – there is a momentarily delay as the ABS system initializes and lets off the brakes to stop the perceived skid. I’ve had this on all my cars since I first got ABS in 1992.
The world is full of ignorant drivers, prius divers are no exception – there should be a public education campaign on how to drive a car with ABS.
This is a NON news item – move along!
I have a 3rd gen and I can confirm this happens when you brake over uneven ground. It isn’t a surge of acceleration but rather a loss of braking that occurs. Some people are claiming that it is a characteristic of ABS. What is going on isn’t what should be expected from ABS kicking in. I have owned several cars over the years that have ABS and none of them have behaved in this manner. This is my first Toyota (first Prius, first hybrid, etc). I don’t expect this to be the way the car should behave. If it is or if Toyota refuses to address it, it will be the last Toyota I own and I will trade it in before it is due time.
I think the car is a great piece of technology but this is an issue that really needs to be looked at.
Does anyone here know how many complaints the NHTSA needs to accumulate, before they decide to start an investigation? How long does such an investigation take to complete?
(I was going to buy a new Prius, took a test drive, felt something weird while braking, then google found me this page which describes exactly what I experienced)
There doesn’t have to be any number.
I agree with Ken 1/9/10. I’ve had other cars with ABS and they all behaved in the same way, split second loss of braking while ABS detects wheel lock. My motorcycle does the same thing. You just have to push on the brake pedal harder. The Prius’ brakes are very consistent. I’ve been driving to work in New York over the past month in terribly cold, snowy, icy weather over roads that became crappy from overzealous snowplow truck drivers who should have just put salt down instead of tearing them up when there was less than half an inch of snow. I have yet to feel unsafe in my car. These people who think there is a problem have either a rarely occuring defect in manufacturing, or more likely expect too much out of a system that incorporates ABS, hydrolic-mechanical, and electro-regenerative braking. They should probably just trade in their cars and buy SUV’s so that they can finally quit crying and start to feel safe (just hope they don’t flip over).
I have no complaint with the way the ABS brakes worked on my Prius, although I have to admit that under certain circumstances, they do give a little bit more of an “out of control” feeling than I have experienced with other ABS brake systems (in several Lexus models and also a Silverado pickup and a Tundra pickup).
My complaint about the brakes in my Prius concerns all the strange sounds that come out of my Prius’s braking system after the Toyota dealer replaced the actuator assembly.
I’ve now taken my Prius to a second Toyota dealer. Unlike the first Toyota dealer, the second dealership readily agrees that the sounds are not at all normal. However, they have had my car for several days and say that they are so far unable to correct the problem and that they suspect the braking repair instructions from Toyota in their manuals may be incorrect. They said they were trying to get help from Toyota headquarters but that they were having difficulty getting help because all the Toyota support people are very involved in the sticking accelerator problem.
Anyway, my Prius was absolutely wonderful for 22 months and 25000 miles. However, this problem has shaken my confidence in both my Prius and in Toyota.
It is not a safe feeling to drive a car that has all sorts of strange sounds coming from the braking system. It is also not a comfort knowing that you own a car that can only be serviced by a Toyota dealer and that even the Toyota dealer may not be able to fix the problem.
Anyway, I would like to keep my Prius, but it has been at the dealerships for eight out of the last 30 days and this can not continue. To further aggravate the situation, Toyota has not yet offered to give me a loaner car so I am afoot and not happy about that, either. Somehow, I think my local Chevy or Ford dealer would have treated me better than I have been treated so far by Toyota.
I saw your article about the Prius brake problem while while is was surfing the msn site during lunch. It sounded like a similar situation I had with ’94 Plymouth Grand Voyager when new. When coming to a stop on a downgrade near my home, I hit a small patch of loose road graavel. It felt as if the brakes had frozen or stopped working. This occurred at different times under similar conditions or if I hit a pothole. The dealer basically said there was nothing to worry about, it was just the way ABS systems worked. Some months later, Chrysler issued a recall to have faulty ABS sensors changed. Although the brakes are different, could this be a similar problem with the Prius?
tjw..can you be more specific when you say there are strange sounds coming from your brakes.
Describe the sounds and when they occur.